現代数学の系譜　カントル　超限集合論2

[過去ﾛｸﾞ] 現代数学の系譜　カントル　超限集合論2 (1002ﾚｽ)
上下前次1-新
通常表示 512ﾊﾞｲﾄ分割ﾚｽ栞
抽出解除ﾚｽ栞

このｽﾚｯﾄﾞは過去ﾛｸﾞ倉庫に格納されています｡
次ｽﾚ検索歴削→次ｽﾚ栞削→次ｽﾚ過去ﾛｸﾞﾒﾆｭｰ

553: 現代数学の系譜 雑談 古典ガロア理論も読む ◆e.a0E5TtKE  [] 2020/03/20(金) 11:34:24.47 ID:+qJdNaLm

＜転載＞
0.99999……は１ではない　その７
https://rio2016.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/math/1584625377/79-80
(抜粋)
79 2020/03/20(金)  ID:WMaa4Quj
conglomerabilityの定義を理解した上でPrussの論文を読み直せば、
自説がPrussによって真正面から否定されてると理解できます

80 現代数学の系譜 雑談 古典ガロア理論も読む ◆e.a0E5TtKE 2020/03/20(金) ID:+qJdNaLm
おサルさん、DR Pruss氏は、mathoverflowの彼の回答の前段で、conglomerabilityを出しているが
（下記引用ご参照）
最後は、”the function is measurable”が不成立だから、”dumb（ダメダメ） strategy”と言っているよ
（下記の通り）
QED
（＾＾；

（参考）
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/151286/probabilities-in-a-riddle-involving-axiom-of-choice
Probabilities in a riddle involving axiom of choice Denis氏 Dec 9 '13
DR Pruss氏
(抜粋)
By a conglomerability assumption, we could then conclude that P(X<=Y)=0, which would be absurd as the same reasoning would also show that P(Y<=X)=0.

In general, Mj will be nonmeasurable (one can prove this in at least some cases). We likewise have no reason to think that M is measurable. But without measurability, we can't make sense of talk of the probability that the guess will be correct.

That's a fine argument assuming the function is measurable. But what if it's not?

So there is an extension P′ of P such that P′-almost surely the dumb strategy works. Just let P′ be an extension on which the set of representatives has measure 1 and note that the dumb strategy works on the set of representatives.

http://www.mdpi.com/2073-8994/3/3/636
Symmetry and the Brown-Freiling Refutation of the Continuum Hypothesis
by Paul Bartha
Symmetry 2011, 3(3), 636-652;

http://rio2016.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/math/1576852086/553

554: 現代数学の系譜 雑談 古典ガロア理論も読む ◆e.a0E5TtKE  [] 2020/03/20(金) 12:00:58.15 ID:+qJdNaLm

>>553
DR Pruss氏は下記で、conglomerabilityの正確な意味がいまいち分からんけど
要するに”nonmeasurable”で、測度論的確率から外れているということでしょう （＾＾；

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pruss
Alexander Robert Pruss (born January 5, 1973) is a Canadian mathematician, philosopher, Professor of Philosophy and the Co-Director of Graduate Studies in Philosophy at Baylor University in Waco, Texas.

Pruss graduated from the University of Western Ontario in 1991 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Mathematics and Physics.
After earning a Ph.D. in Mathematics at the University of British Columbia in 1996 and publishing several papers in Proceedings of the American Mathematical Society and other mathematical journals,[4] he began graduate work in philosophy at the University of Pittsburgh.

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=RXBoDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA77&dq=Pruss+conglomerability&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjplc_N8qfoAhWJ7WEKHXwVDuoQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=Pruss%20conglomerability&f=false
Infinity, Causation, and Paradox
著者: Alexander R. Pruss
（P76-77 に conglomerabilityの説明があるが、正確な定義は分からないが、
　P76に”But typically, where there is no coutable additibity, there is lack of conglomerability(Scervish,Seidenfeld,and Kanade 1984).”
　と記されているので、”coutable additibity ”即ち σ-加法性 と密接に関連した（多分”σ-加法性”を拡張した）概念だと思う）
（更に附言すれば、現代の測度論的確率が、σ-加法性をベースに成立っているとすれば、DR Pruss氏の指摘は、要するに”nonmeasurable”で、測度論的確率から外れているということでしょう （＾＾； ）

http://rio2016.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/math/1576852086/554

573: 現代数学の系譜 雑談 古典ガロア理論も読む ◆e.a0E5TtKE  [] 2020/03/21(土) 20:28:59.97 ID:gPebnXHG

>>568
おサルさー、おまえ mathoverflowの DR Pruss氏議論が分かっていない 質問者 Denis氏そっくりの理解じゃんかｗ(゜ロ゜；
DR Pruss氏は、”That's a fine argument assuming the function is measurable. But what if it's not?”ってあるよね

で、質問者 Denis氏は、この議論には、全く入れなかった
ただ、壊れたレコードのように
”Our choice of index i is made randomly, but for this we only need the uniform distribution on {0,…,n}. It is made independently of the opponent's choice. ? Denis Dec 17 '13 at 15:21”
を繰返したのだった（＾＾；

（>>553より参考）
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/151286/probabilities-in-a-riddle-involving-axiom-of-choice
Probabilities in a riddle involving axiom of choice Denis氏 Dec 9 '13
DR Pruss氏
(抜粋)
By a conglomerability assumption, we could then conclude that P(X<=Y)=0, which would be absurd as the same reasoning would also show that P(Y<=X)=0.

That's a fine argument assuming the function is measurable. But what if it's not?

http://www.mdpi.com/2073-8994/3/3/636
Symmetry and the Brown-Freiling Refutation of the Continuum Hypothesis
by Paul Bartha
Symmetry 2011, 3(3), 636-652;

http://rio2016.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/math/1576852086/573

586: 現代数学の系譜 雑談 古典ガロア理論も読む ◆e.a0E5TtKE  [] 2020/03/22(日) 09:53:17.78 ID:TMbOZsnt

>>582
おサル、それ誤読だよ
”misunderstanding”は、下記引用の3)のとこでしょ
でも、面白いね、文献の”philosophical reason”の「 independently」の
”orthodox (Kolmogorovian) probability theory”と異なる見方（哲学だけれど）

（>>553より参考）
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/151286/probabilities-in-a-riddle-involving-axiom-of-choice
Probabilities in a riddle involving axiom of choice Denis氏 Dec 9 '13
DR Pruss氏
(抜粋)
show 6 more comments
1)Our choice of index i is made randomly, but for this we only need the uniform distribution on {0,…,n}. It is made independently of the opponent's choice. ? Denis Dec 17 '13 at 15:21
2)I was assuming that "independently" has the meaning it does in probability theory (P(AB)=P(A)P(B) and generalizations for σ-fields). But that does require a probabilistic description of the opponent's choice.
Of course, one could mean "independently" here in some non-mathematical causal sense. (And there may be philosophical reason for doing this: fitelson.org/doi.pdf )
Still, mixing the probabilistic with nonprobabilistic concepts might lead to some difficulties, though. ? Alexander Pruss Dec 18 '13 at 15:21
3)ah ok I see where the misunderstanding comes from, it's true that "independently" is ambiguous, because only one random variable is involved here.
But I think it still has a mathematical meaning in the sense "it does not depend on the opponent's choice", namely we have ∃x∀y where x is our strategy and y is our opponent's strategy (i.e. the sequence),
and we still win this game because we can choose devise a (probabilistic) strategy that works on all sequences. ? Denis Dec 19 '13 at 11:54

つづく

http://rio2016.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/math/1576852086/586

上下前次1-新書関写板覧索設栞歴

ｽﾚ情報赤ﾚｽ抽出画像ﾚｽ抽出歴の未読ｽﾚ AAｻﾑﾈｲﾙ

ぬこの手ぬこTOP 0.045s